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Public Zone 公開區 => General Topics 綜合題目 => Topic started by: chin on 30 October 2010, 22:51:10
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I am too tired to write the comment now. Just upload the photo first. Will add comments later.
The theme was Bordeaux Great 8 second wines from 2000
Lafite - Carraudes de Lafite
Latour - Les Forts de Latour
Haut Brion - Bahans Haut Brion
Mouton - Petit Mouton
Margaux - Pavillon Rouge du Chateau Margaux
Petrus - no 2nd wines, nearest is 98 La Grave A Pomerol
Ausone - don't have petit Ausone, nearest is 2000 Moulin Saint George
Cheval Blanc - La Petit Cheval
Lafleur - 98 Les Pensees de Lafleur
White Wines
Margaux - Pavillon Blanc du Chateau Margaux (Grand Vin, not 2nd wine)
Mouton - Aile d'Argent
Haut Brion Blanc - Les Plantiers du Haut Brion
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[updated 31-Oct-2010]
Many thanks to Billy Mak for organizing the tasting, and collecting the wines. It wasn't an easy task to collect these wines.
The tasting was done in groups of three wines. All reds were double decanted (i.e. each wine, except the Latour, was quickly emptied into a decanter to allow contact with air, then poured back into the original bottle to preserve the aroma.)
The group consist of mainly amateur wine drinkers like myself, and a few experts like Hang. I can smell and taste the difference in many but couldn't label the characteristics. At the end, Billy asked everyone for their Wine of the Meet. The result
- Les Forts de Latour, 5 votes
- Pavillon Rouge du Chateau Margaux, 5 votes
- Les Pensees de Lafleur, 3 votes
- Petit Mouton, 2 votes
- Bahans Haut Brion, 1 vote
If everyone could have a second vote, there would be more votes for the Lafleur & Cheval Blanc. Surprisingly no one voted for the Lafite! After the vote, Billy named the rough market price, and the votes seem to corresponding to the market price, with Lafite being the glaring exception.
To me, each and every single one of them are good individually. But when pitted together, there is clear preference. The main regret I had was that I wasn't in tiptop condition for the day, and by the time of trying the last flight, my senses were getting numb. Otherwise it would have been much more enjoyable to retry whatever left in the bottles.
I am also attaching two documents - an article by Billy about 2nd wines from top chateaus, and the Robert Parker tasting notes for the wine tasted (except for the Kistler.)
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Group photo.
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Hang, and others, feel free to post the tasting notes.
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Me too....I am exhausted tonight. After this event I went to my friend's place for dinner and drank a lot of wiskies, and 2 bottles of red. Yan, your Ernie Els is big but lack of length and complexity.
I need time to type the TN and will post here later.
Many thanks for this interesting tasting.
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Hang, and others, feel free to post the tasting notes.
I left my tasting notes at your office.... :P
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I have uploaded in the first message an articles by Billy published in a monthly magazine, and the Robert Parker notes on the wines (except the Kistler.)
And this picture is the chaos after the tasting. :)
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My Tasting Notes for white wines:
2005 Aile d' Argent
A medium lemon colour core fading to watery rim dry white wine with some legs. On nose it gives medium intensity developing aromas of citrus, guava, vanilla, sweet spice, white flowers, wet stones with hints of butter and walnut. It has medium acidity, alcohol and body. Medium intensity flavours of grass, floral, vanilla, buttery and nutty and a medium length with buttery finish. (89)
2005 Pavillon Blanc du Chateau Margaux
This is a dry white wine with medium lemon colour core fading to a watery rim, significant tears. Aromas of citrus, oaky, vanilla, butterscotch, floral with trace of mineral, grass and musky at medium intensity level. It is dry with more than medium acidity, a slightly higher in alcohol and medium body. Quite intense flavour in palate which contains nutty, vanilla, lemon, grassy with hint of buttery. Medium lenght with vanilla and citrus finish. (90)
2006 Kistler Hyde Vineyard
A medium lemon colour wine with narrow watery rim and heavy legs. On nose it has floral, lemon, pear, musky, and nutty aromas backing up with hints of tropical fruit. This dry wine gives medium intensity flavours of citrus, nutty, trace of grassy and buttery on palate with the lift of medium acidity, and alcohol. Medium body and a medium length with lemon type fruity finish. (88)
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Generally, Pavillon Blanc is of a higher quality than the Aile and Kistler, in terms of both complexity and intensity. However, it may need a year or two to develop a little bit further.
Aile is straight forward Sauvignon Blanc + Semillon blend, it has a quite complex nose but it fails to carry on in palate. A bit disappointed in mouth.
Kistler is trying hard to be a burgundian but its tropical character tells the truth. It is rich and fruit dominated but it lacks the finesse and elegancy of a burgundian wine, especially when you compare it with the two Montrachets.
So in terms of quality: I rate Pavillon Blanc > Aile d' Argent > Kistler
in terms of my preference: Pavillon Blanc > Kistler > Aile d' Argent
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Now Red Wines:
1998 Ch. La Grave a Pomerol
A deep ruby colour wine with a paler rime and legs. It has rather light intensity aromas of black cherry, vanilla, smoke, earthy and some vegetal notes. On palate, it is dry with medium acidity, medium alcohol and medium tannin which is surprisingly slightly stalky. Medium intensity flavours of earth, blackberries, smoke with a relatively lighter body, a bit hollow in mouth. Medium length with earthy finish. (88)
1999 Ch. Moulin Saint Georges
Anothe dry wine with deep ruby colour, paler rim and legs. The aromas contain black plum, vanilla, chocolate, spice, smoke and trace of herbaceous. It has medium acidity, slightly fuller body and medium alcohol. On palate, it gives flavours of black cherry, earthy and some spicy. Rich but simple in palate. Medium lenght with blackberries fruit finish. (90)
2000 Le Petit Cheval
A deep ruby wine with purple tinge fading to paler ruby rim with some legs. It has quite intense aromas of black plum, blackberries, floral, redcurrant, smoke, spice box with trace of earthy and tobacco. On palate it is dry with a bit higher in acidity. Medium body, medium alcohol with quite high but soft and fine-grained tannin. Flavours contain black cherry, clove, spice, smoke with some leafy notes. Medium length with cherry and earthy finish. (92)
2000 Pensees de Lafleur
This is a deep ruby colour dry wine with paler rim and legs. On nose it has medium intensity of black plum, black cherry, smoke, vanilla, graphite, truffle and trace of sweet spice. Spicy characters are quite subtle. It has medium acidity, body and alcohol with quite intense flavours of black cherry, vanilla, vegetal and spice. A fairly long length with cherry finish. (92)
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2000 Le Petit Mouton de Mouton Rothschild
A deep ruby wine with paler rim and legs gives rather weak intensity of black fruits, clove, spice, smoke. Quite simple. It is dry with medium acidity and alcohol and medium ripe tannin. Medium intensity of blackcurrant, vegetal, smoke, spice flavours with a medium lenght with blackberry finish. (89)
2000 Pavillon Rogue du Chateau Margaux
This is a deep ruby wine with paler rim and legs. It has rather intense aromas of earth, smoke, blackcurrant, black cherry, licorice, clove and vanilla. Dry with medium acidity and alcohol. Medium body with medium soft and silky tannin with quite intense flavours of black cherry, ripe black plum, smoke, vanilla, licorice with trace of cedar wood and spice. A fairly long length with cherry and earthy finish (92)
2000 Ch. Bahans Haut-Brion
Another deep ruby wine with paler rim and legs. On nose it has medium intensity aromas of blackcurrant, black cherry, earthy, cigar box, herbaceous, smoke, vanilla, and trace of dusty. It is dry with medium acidity and alcohol. Quite fuller in body with quite high tannin which is ripe and soft. On palate it gives flavours of blackcurrant, black cherry, vegetal, smoke, spice, with trace of earthy. Medium length with cherry finish (91)
2000 Le Forts de Latour
A deep purple wine fading to a paler rim with legs. It has medium intensity aromas of blackcurrant, ripe black plum, vegetal, cedar, licorice, black cherry, with hints of smoke and earthy. It is dry with medium acidity, alcohol and soft and ripe tannin. Quite high intensity (which is a surprise) flavours of blackcurrant, cedar, vegetal with trace of earth and oak. Quite long length with vanilla finish (92)
2000 Carruades de Lafite
Another deep ruby coloured wine with ruby rim and legs. It gives medium nose of blackcurrant, mint, cedar, cigar box, fresh black cherry with trace of smoke, quite subtle. It is dry, medium acidity and alcohol. The tannin is soft and silky at medium level. On palate, quite intense flavours of blackcurrant, cedar, cigar box, pencil shaving with trace of earth. Fairly long length wtih cherry and cedar finish. (92)
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Among the 9 reds, Petit Mouton is just a so-so wine as expected. It looks quite simple and straight forward when you compare this with the others.
Pavillon Rogue is good, intense with certain complexity but it is not so intense as the Le Forts de Latour and not so complex as the Petit Cheval, Pensees and Bahans.
Bahans is surprisingly complex and rich but the flavour intensity put it down. Still enjoyable indeed.
Le Forts de Latour has reasonably high in complexity and intensity, a very good wine but it is still less complex than some of the others.
Carruades is a flawless wine which teaches you the word "balance". It is like Pavillon that it has a higher grade in all aspects but not outstanding.
La Grave a Pomerol is a disappointed one. It is a bit hollow on palate, albeit it reflects the terroir of Pomerol well.
Moulin St. George cannot win the match by its beautiful wood work this time. Conversely, it is rather subtle than its newer vintages but ripe fruit and good integration make it an enjoyable wine, tho the competitors this time are really strong.
Le Petit Cheval is amazing in terms of its complexity. It keeps on telling you that it has quite a lot to give and gives it subtly. This is the most complex one.
Pensees shows a good complexity as well but it seems that it is even subtler than Petit Cheval. Nice one.
In terms of quality : I rate Petit Cheval > Latour > Pensees > Pavillon > Carruades & Bahans > Moulin > Petit Mouton > Le Grave a Pomerol
My preference: Latour > Petit Cheval > Bahans > Pensees & Pavillon > Carruades > Moulin > Petit Mouton > Le Grave a Pomerol
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Thank you. It will take me some time to digest all the tn..
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Billy Mak's comment
喜歡 Les Forts de Latour 男士居多， 喜歡 Pavillon Rouge du Chateau Margaux 以女士為主 (大雄除外)。這結果合理，前者乾淨，細緻及柔滑；後者漂香，甜美，直接。
Bordeaux 八大加 Lafleur (及 Le Pin) 巳經太貴，要飲他們的風格，最接近是：
Lafite : Caruades de Lafite (1998年之後)
Duhart Milon (2003年之後)
Margaux : Pavillon Rouge du Chateau Margaux
Latour : Les Forts de Latour
Pauillac de Latour (無咁似，有D影子)
Haut Brion : Bahans Haut Brion
La Clarence du Haut Brion (2nd wine 2008後改名)
Mouton : Petit Mouton? 唔係好似
Clerc Milon
舊 Lynch Bages， 窮人 Mouton?
Haut Bages Liberal，窮人 Lynch Bages?
Cheval Blanc : Petit Cheval
Ausone : Chapelle de Ausone
Moulin Saint Georges (2000年之後)
Petrus : 冇2nd wine， 最似 1998 La Grave A Pomerol (Parker講的)
Lafleur : Pensees de Lafleur
Le Pin : 冇2nd wine， 但唔係好特別(除左貴)
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至於Bordeaux 八大，所出白酒只有三，四支。
Haut Brion (Clarence Dillon 家族)
Haut Brion - Les Plantiers du Haut Brion (2nd Wine)
Laville Haut Brion (正酒)
Chateau Margaux
Pavillon Blanc du Chateau Margaux (當天最吸引) - 不是 2nd Wine，係正酒。
Mouton Rothschild
Aile de d'Argent - 不是 2nd Wine，係正酒，比較弱。
如要把Bordeaux白酒排名，我的排名是
1. Haut Brion Blanc
2. Laville Haut Brion
3. Domaine de Chevalier Blanc
4. Pavillon Blanc du Chateau Margaux
5. Pape Clement Blanc